Conversation with Devyani Vaishampayan, 'Future of Work ' digital innovation specialist, Non Executive Director and Investment Fund Manager.

Previously an international and multi-sector Group HRD.  She is a thought leader and regular speaker. Having lived across four countries and three continents, she says she has learned to cherish diversity, develop intellectual curiosity and value constant self-reinvention.

In this interview Devyani advises us to start with no preconceptions which create barriers about ourselves and says executive teams lack quality insights which makes it difficult to understand the issues involved.

Louisa:Thank you for taking time out to join me today. I know you are very busy and I appreciate your input to this very important topic. So Devyani, what would you say are the 3 key things which have positively impacted on your career progression and successes?

Devyani:

During the first 10 to 15 years of my career I worked with very bright leaders in organisations like Citibank and AT&T which were meritocratic. I was able to explore my potential and grow.

Louisa:

So what were the three things?

Devyani:

The First was working with world class leaders who were very smart, had international exposure and were passionate about what they did.

Secondly, working in entrepreneurial environments which were meritocratic about growing talent. This automatically created the environment to grow diverse talent. I was working with leaders who had exposure to a variety of different environments and they were very good at spotting talent and developing it.

The third thing was my family. I was very lucky to have parents who were very strong advocates for academic achievement. I have a degree in Physics, an MBA, an Advanced MBA and I am a trained Behavioural Scientist. As a result, I have the mindset that nothing could really hold me back and that it was about being the best that I could be. There are many bright people who don’t have the same opportunities to get educated.

 Louisa:

If you could have seen into the future what would you have done differently to improve your experiences?

Devyani:

I think I would have taken on more commercial roles. I have had the opportunity to do great HR roles, but I could perhaps have gone into Finance or Sales. After completing my MBA I still believed I wasn’t smart enough to go into Finance. I think society instilled some constraints as women did not take on a Finance role in those days   I had also ruled out Sales roles as it would involve travelling which would have been difficult with young children. But in reality I ended up doing HR roles where I was travelling half the month So I had created these imaginary barriers because of social conditioning as   a woman.

Louisa:

What do think we as BAME individuals need to do differently to impact on the data? (Some 78% of UK companies have a senior leadership team that fails to reflect the demographics and population – McKinsey’s Report “Diversity Matters”)

Devyani:

First and fore most make sure that when you start out to aim high and start with no preconceptions which create barriers about yourself. Race doesn’t matter if you focus on what you are good at. I didn’t grow up in the UK. I don’t have a British accent, and I never imagined I would be working at board level with leaders from organisations such as AT&T, British Gas and Rolls-Royce , but equally I never thought  I couldn’t!

Don’t delimit yourself with these thoughts and focus on being the best that you can be.

Louisa:

How do you think individuals can individuals challenge organisational barriers to progression?

Devyani:

It is key to network more with a wide variety of people. This is relevant to anyone not just BAME professionals.  It is important to be open-minded about people, situations and possibilities   If you at board level you are definitely in a position to challenge because you have the formal remit to guide the executive team.

I think secondly you are in a position to look at the relevant data. A board role gives you access to organisation wide data to identify trends around culture and talent particularly around unconscious bias.  Finally, you are in a position to ensure there are initiatives in place that can bring about change through sustained effort. Whether it is ensuring diversity through recruitment, building up a broader talent pipeline or embedding the right leadership behaviour. regular board reviews can bring momentum to these initiatives. So a board role can be very powerful.  

However you don’t necessarily have to be in a senior role to bring about change. As an example my daughter who is 29 works in Asset Management, a predominantly white male environment. She joined as one of the youngest employee and started a EMEA Diversity and Inclusion Network and over 2 years  she was able to build strong buy- in by management. It has now become a powerful medium of change.

Louisa:

The reports repeatedly say that organisations are uncomfortable talking about race, what is your organisation doing to change this?

Devyani:

Given the work I do with several senior leaders/boards, I can give a general view of what organisations are doing

Louisa:

OK that is great

Devyani:

Firstly, it's great that Race has been identified as a specific area as it constitutes a big part of the talent pipeline. This formal focus ensures boards and head- hunters are under more pressure to deliver more diverse lists and provide a wider talent pool. There is increased emphasis on unconscious bias training which is useful in embedding right behaviours. 

However, there is still a great deal of lip service that it being provided to this issue particularly at senior management levels (which is predominantly white). Executive teams also lack 'quality insights' which makes it difficult for them to understand the issues involved. Given my work around digital innovation I am however optimistic that Artificial Intelligence can be a huge facilitator of diversity. Data and insights on a real-time basis can provide a greater understanding of issues. Efforts to remove bias at the recruitment stage can be increased through solutions that use neuroscience. Organisation network analysis makes it possible to identify influencers in the organisation through electronic communication. And AI based coaching which is low cost can help talent development for a wider group of individuals.

Louisa:

The McGregor-smith Review said leadership and culture provide the barriers but also the solutions that enable BAME individuals’ success. How important is mentoring, coaching, sponsorship in supporting your personal and career progression?

Devyani:

To be honest I did not formally seek out mentoring relationships as the practice was not common during my early career. But I looked for inspirational people inside and outside of the organisation and reached out informally to them. Sometimes it would be simply for a one-off coffee /advice on a particular issue and at other times there were more regular meetings. I have been lucky to meet some incredibly successful people who have been generous with their time and I have tried to do the same. 

Louisa:

What about Sponsorship?

Devyani:

I did have a formal sponsorship early on in my career in the form of my line manager. I think your line manager can be a great sponsor because they really know you well. Currently, the investors in my angel investment fund (all FTSE 100 Group HRD’s/ NED's) are also strong sponsors as the concept is truly unique and they are committed to bring innovation to the workplace. 

Louisa:

What examples of great inclusive leadership have you experienced or seen in practice?

Devyani:

In my early career I was lucky to have worked for high performing organisations such as Citibank and AT&T where I experienced inspirational leaders who were strategic, entrepreneurial and meritocratic. 

Currently, I rate one of my investors Helmet Schuster, Group HRD of BP (FTSE 10 business) highly. Helmut is very authentic, well rounded and a forward- thinking individual. Although a busy man he is generous with his time, thinks outside the box and is very inspirational. At a societal level I find Barack Obama very inspirational. Not only is he very intelligent but also compassionate and it is incredible how he had achieved the role in such a divisive society.

Louisa:

If there are organisations out there thinking about how to embed great inclusive leadership what would you advise?

Devyani:

I would say start with ensuring the CEO and the executive leadership team are fully on board. The CEO needs to take the lead and ensure there is a clearly articulated case around why change needs to be achieved. It is also important for the CEO to highlight the consequences of not being inclusive and personally role model behaviours. However, intent can only be translated into long term impact through a well thought out program of change. This needs to include targets around ensuring diversity through recruitment, investment around mindset change and metrics around growing an internal talent pipeline.

Louisa

How do you manage to negotiate politics against being your authentic self?

Devyani:

Having a strong sense of your own values is a great first step in being authentic. It is easy in today’s world of social media to get pressurised into being what others want you to be. The next thing is to get a good sense of what the organisation’s real values are – not what is stated but what is being practiced. My last organisation was a great example of politically correct statements being uttered while the reality was very different!

In case you find yourself being conflicted it is important to have a mentor you can talk to. If you are in a senior role (and reporting to the CEO) this can be difficult. In my last role I did reach out to board members and used them as mentors.

Louisa:

Devyani, on a scale of 1 -10 to what degree do you think you have reached your full potential at work? (1 being: You have barely began to reach your full potential and 10 being: You are already at your full potential at work achieving and performing at your best)

Devyani:

I think I have reached 70% of my potential. After a successful career as a Board level HR Director in large multinational businesses I am now in the 2nd phase of my career. This second career involves a combination of taking my previous learning to a more strategic level through my board roles as well as developing learning agility by doing something very different i.e starting an angel investment fund around artificial intelligence solutions. The combination of old and new is exciting and keeps me relevant in today's fast changing environment. 

Louisa:

Finally, on a scale of 1-10 to what degree do you feel your ethnicity may have hindered your progression at work? (1 being: You don’t believe your ethnicity has impacted on your progression at work and 10 being: You are certain that your ethnicity has profoundly hindered your progress at work?

Devanyi:

I would say 4/5 because the majority of leadership teams I have worked with were white, male and not international. The conversation often was around rugby and football (of no interest to me!) and an understanding of other cultures was limited.

However, compared to most countries the UK has also made the most efforts to change this scenario. The fact that the in 2010 12.5 % of FTSE 100 Boards (and 9.5 % of FTSE 350 Boards) were women while today this has reached 30 % shows that attitudes are changing. The Parker review sets out achievable objectives and timescales to encourage greater diversity on boards, and provides practical tools to support Board members of UK companies to address the issue.

Thank you very much to Devyani, for sharing your some valuable insights and thoughts with us. Perhaps for those reading this, some of the elements we have talked about today can inspire you to start to have some of those conversations with colleagues today. If you are a Senior Leader in your organisation perhaps some of the insights shared will also inspire you to review the relevant data and identify where there may be room for improvements in your recruitment and talent strategy.

Please connect with me at This email address is being protected from spambots. You need JavaScript enabled to view it. Feel  free to comment or share this article with your networks